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Brewnerians: Read a story from Welcome to the Monkey House and respond. I'll try to start with a question, but feel free to begin if I haven't arrived there yet. Choose three (or more?) of the stories to respond to. Maybe you can write about confusions, or guesses, or comparisons, or the language, or characters, or the White Rock Girl or....whatever catches your attention.
me
About Me
- kbrewner
- Notice: the full moon (in eclipse) is over my right shoulder.
The White Rock Girl
Psyche
101 comments:
No this has never happened to me but I think that just about everyone has probably heard this story, one way or another. I guess the message is still just as useful though. The message I get from "The Lie" is to be my own person and not try to fit into other people's expectations for me.
This is a very specific situation that I doubt many have had. No, my parents didn't go to the same schools as their parents and so forth. However, the father doing what he told the son not to do has definitely happened to me. Of course it was not as big as my father humbling his moral principles, but rather comical. I didn't like this story as much as other "Monkey House" chapters.
This story was also not my favorite from "Monkey House," but I did find the hypcritical father to be very interesting. My parents have done the same things in much minor ways- say one thing and do another, but to take such a strong stance and then completely turn around and denounce your original opinions was very strange. I was shocked to see the mother comfort her son after she was so proud of him going to the school, but at the same time I was happy she made that choice.
This specific experience has never happened to me, but minor lies following this lie has happened; they usually don't turn out the way I had planned.
I agree with Ken. Especially now being a junior with all the pressures that college has on us all. Our future is being molded by each decision we make. We should make our own choices and not follow our piers/family members wants and expectations. It's our life to live... not theirs.
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This has never happened to me but I feel that this does happen to a many kids who have parents with a great tradition in their family. The message that I got from this story is that you don't have to do something just because your parents feel that you must, just for the sake of tradition, if you feel that you have better options in your life.
I like what Keelin said about how we have so much pressure on us to get into a good college. I thought the kid seemed like me, not wanting to let the parents know about the decision from a prestigious university if I didn't get in. However, I probably wouldn't have carried the deception that far.
This has never happened to me either but Eli's lie to his parents reminds me of the movie Accepted. The movie is about a guy who doesn't get accepted to any real colleges so he creates a pretend college and acceptance letter. He does this because he doesn't want to disappoint his parents. The lie gets pushed to an unrealistic point but the way the movie starts out reminds me of this story.
Nothing as specific as this has ever happened to me but I have been in an instance when I have done poorly on my report card and tried to hide it from my parents. Of course, this was back in 5th grade when sports was the only thing that was important to me. Even if I got denied from a school my parents would never try to ask for an exception because it ruins your reputation and most importantly ruins your realtionship with that school.
I feel like this is something that might happen to me. The parents just wanted what was best for their son, you can't blame them for trying to get their son the best education possible; they never even seemed disappointed, just shocked since they had never even considered the possibility that he wasn't accepted. I think in the end they understood that what they considered the best school for their son wasn't necessarily the best fit for him. This story was rather ordinary and somewhat predictable, so I didn't like it as much as the other stories.
The main message that I got out of this story is that you shouldn't do things just to please others. In Eli's case, he pretends that he got into Whitehill so his father will not be disappointed. I have never been pressured to get into a specific school, but I have done things just to make others happy. Through my experiences, I have learned that doing things just to please others is not good because either I was not able to meet their expectations or I ended up disappointing myself.
I also didn't enjoy this story as much as the other's by Vonnegut, and nothing like this has really happened to me exactly to this extent, however the whole "doing things in an attempt to please others, and especially not to disappoint your parents" is familiar. I have never been pressured by others to get accepted to a specific college but I can imagine how that feels because I put pressure like that on myself. I wasn't necessarily surprised at the action the parents took because I understood that they just wanted great things for their son, but it still seemed a tad ridiculous to me. I concur with the idea that you shouldn't live your life based on other people's wants or expectations because you really know what's best for yourself. Reminds me a little of all the "peer pressure" nonsense....
Of course not. Due to the romanticism effect, many events in a book tend to not take place in reality. I have never experienced this specific instant, however, alike most people, i have experienced a similar pressure. The theme of this story and other stories similar to it tend to be aligned with that of peer pressure. Thank you to Elaina Castle and all those who have brought this idea prior to her for bringing up this excellent point. Parents, friends, colleagues, and classmates do not always have your best interest in mind. This is why you must complete your own actions based on your own morals, ethics, and principles or as Roxette Per Gessle would say...Listen to your heart. Anyway, stay classy brewnerians and remember that's the way the cookie crumbles.
This exact situation is not one that I have experienced, though I have been in the position where it feels as if I am only doing things to please others, rather than doing things for myself. This story is one that delivers the important message that you need to just be yourself and not be of the mindset that you have to go on living life trying to please everyone around you without taking into consideration your own hopes and dreams.
Like Ely, I have told a lie to my parents and had it blow up in my face. I felt like a complete idiot and my parents were not as forgiving as Eli's. I like this story because the snobbish parents were not treated differently from the others. I hate those parents who want their children to be overachievers and are way too involved in their children's life. I feel bad for Eli because he is the failure of the Remenzel family.
No, this hasn't happened to me either. I agree somewhat with Derkits's tie-in to romanticism here because from the story, I got the message to be yourself and not fit in to the crowd. However, this seems more like transcendentalism to me.
There have been times before where I've had not such good news to tell my parents. But, once I did i felt such a sense of relief. I can relate to Eli on that level, however, not on many others. My parents have never pressured me to do something my heart wasn't in, nor have they ever made themselves unapproachable like Eli's parents. Also, let me say that I can't stand Doctor Remenzel. Not many things in life are worse than hypocrites.
No, this has not really happened in my life either. Of course there will always be that push from our parents to get into a good school, but the decision is really ours to make. Like what Ken, Keelin, and many others stated above, we shouldn't try to fit into other people's expectations of us because if we care too much, then we will lose our originality and drain ourselves trying to be perfect in other people's eyes and disappoint ourselves. We should make our own "footsteps in the sand."
Though I haven’t found myself in this specific situation before, I definitely have been scared to let down my parents. Whether I had just received my first detention, didn’t get as high of a score on the ACT as they had expected, or even my first encounter with law enforcement, I have always been terrified of letting them down and then having to deal with their disappointment afterwards. However, fortunately for me, my parents have always surprised me by not caring that much. I’m never grounded, forced to study, or reprimanded in any sort of way. Though I would definitely prefer this to Eli’s parents’ method of parenting, I still feel having expectations for your children is very important. Without them, I think motivating a child to succeed in life is pretty much impossible.
i was immediately interested in this story as the plot thickened when I learned of Eli's failing of his exams. This hasn't specifically happened to me personally, but I'm sure hypocracy among families or friends happens frequently. I learned from this story not to do things to oblige others and to be able to accept failure and to try to live life your own way. I thought Dr. Remenzel handled the situation poorly and disrespected his family name as a well as his wife and son. He acted as if he was better than his wife the entire story and she was the one who understood Eli's situation the best.
Did anyone think of themselves in terms of what happened to Eli's dad? Have you ever had THAT happen to you? Have you ever been a hypocrite before? Yes, you have. Everyone has. It's easy to make blanket statements and stand for X or Y, but it's not easy to stay behind everything you say or believe. Sometimes people are desperate, or feel pressured to act against a way they feel they should. Sometimes people just mess up. It happens. What I liked best about the story was that Eli's parents (his dad, really) realized their mistake in the end. That's how you become a better person sometimes ... by messing up, acknowledging your mistake and moving on.
Sorry, this is a long one: Something like this has happened to everyone I think. This story first off deals with not living up to parents’ expectations and not being able to admit it, and then deals with people who think they are privileged and above everyone else, simply because of money or a name. I love this story because it shows that no matter how much money you have or what your name is, it should truly be your work that entitles you to success. There have been many times when people I know have not lived up to expectations, but have tried to weasel their way into things whether it be parents calling up to get kids on sports teams, parents trying to get their kids grades bumped up, parents trying to get their kids into better classes, etc. The problem with this, as pointed out in the story, is that the kids who are forced into these classes, teams, etc. are unable to keep up. Also, I like that this story points out that people shouldn’t just think that they’re better and special just because of their name/money, because really they are not. I’m going to be perfectly honest in saying that this happens a lot at Fremd high school. Just a few days ago in one of my classes last week, a student begged a teacher to let him take a test a day late, even though he had known about the test. This student basically harassed the teacher because the student thought they should have special privileges simply because that’s how they’ve been raised. I also am a swimming lessons instructor and I cannot tell you how horrible it is to have to deal with parents that say, “Why didn’t my kid move up a level? Can you just move him up next time? He’s a great swimmer! He tries so hard at home!” even though in my class the kid is lazy, obnoxious, refuses to participate in activities, and is truly a horrible swimmer. One time this summer actually I had an obnoxious child named Joe in my class, and although he drove me crazy he was decent swimmer and I was hoping to move him up to the next level. His mom asked me everyday how Joey was doing, even though she witnessed his obnoxious behavior, and asked if he would moved up, and told me she really wanted him to move up. Then on testing day I told Joey that he had to participate and work hard, so that I could evaluate him so he could move to level two, and he got angry with me and started crying. After about ten minutes of his crying he finally told he was crying because didn’t want to move to level two. He clung to me the rest of his class, and gave his mom a mean look when they left. This is why parents shouldn’t think their kids are particularly special, and push them into things they don’t want to do. Also, I’m studying for my AP Psych test right now and this story is definitely an example of the actor-observer discrepancy and self-serving bias (The parents thought the standards were good and important to keep up, but when their kid didn’t meet them it must’ve been a mistake, and the standards didn’t matter).
This specific situation has never happened to me, but the idea has been brought up numerous times. The way Dr. Remenzel tells his son not to expect any special treatment because he is a Remenzel, and then he goes and asks for his son's admission into the school because of the connections he has. The fact that his father did exactly what he told his son not to do is the idea I connect with most. I've had my parents tell me what to do and what not to do, and they end up doing those same things. The phrase, "Do as I say, not as I do" is a common one among my parents. The easiest example of this idea is learning to drive. Saying my parents drive completely legal is a huge lie, and is for most kids' parents. We are expected to look to our parents as role models, yet they TELL us what we should do correctly instead of doing those things to show us in the first place.
Although I agree with everything Amber had to say, my focus was more concentrated on the child, Eli. Yes, his parents were overbearing and demanding, but the concealing of his rejection is arguably central to the plot as well. In the story, after the Remenzels discovered Eli's failure, they did not scold him, but rather felt pity. I don't believe that the Remenzels would have been as cocky and arrogant on the car ride to school if they knew of their son's rejection. While they did facilitate his feelings of inadequacy, they did not cause his lack of confrontation.
This exact scenario hasnt occured in my life, but something very similar has, and im guessing every other teenager can say the same. Every parent has certain expectaions for their child, and admitting to your parents that you couldnt follow through with them has to be one of the hardest things I've done. Yes, I know parents only have expecations for their children because they want them to be the best they can be or whatever, but when I try my best and dissapoint them it kills. My parents always want me to get an "A" in every class, but seriously, sometimes a "B" is the best I can do. Having said this, I still think Eli should have told his parents from the beginning that he didnt get in. I just think that parents should stop and think for a second before they react, and try to figure out if a)- this is what's best for the child and b)- did they try their hardest.
I don't think there was a time when my parents forced me to do things or try to push me. They raised me in a very free environment where all the decisions were basically up to me and I could do anything I wanted to do and quit if I didn't like them. They never put pressure on me or tried to make me live up to their standards/expectations. They wished the best for me and encouraged me but never forced me into doing things. I think it was always I who had high expectations for myself rather than my parents. I've seen so many situations where kids get pushed by their parents. I know how parents love them and want their kids to be privileged and get special treatment, while ignoring the fact that their kids may not be qualified or interested in what their parents are forcing them to do. For instance, take a look at all those rich LA and New York moms who use money to make their children appear on runways as child models. I've seen a lot of times when the parents bribe the professors/teachers so their kids can get into Ivy League school. However, the kids can't handle the pressure and sadly, probably are not Ivy League-material , so they drop out and their life becomes much harder. These days, there are so many parents who push their kids, but I really hope they push kids less and let them grow up by themselves so they can be internally strong.
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